E 189 update Had No Choice

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lal138
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E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Hi All i purchased a 2013 caddy maxi life 2.0tdi bluemotion 140bhp in Aug 2016 with 12000 mls on clock and it drives superb I did have a few problems in first few months when car would just cut out whilst driving took back to dealer and no fault could be found I have now done 24000 mls management light came on last week with code P0403 faulty egr so i deleted code and light goes out I then added some cleaner to fuel .After 3 days and light coming back on delete again it seems now to have cleared as cleaner must be working.I thought i had better get some more information on this problem I found out that my van had e189 emmisons fix two weeks before i purchased.Then i read about vw trust building measure none of this was explained to me by dealer.My time for cover has ended but got claim number from vag customer service .Then had to take to dealer to get service so that they could do vag com diagnosis and send to vw .ARE ANY OTHER MEMBERS HAD THESE PROBLEMS WITH E189 UPDATE only wish i had read more before i would not had this done.YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE THANK YOU ALL HIGH JUST ADDED A LINK WHICH TO ME EXPLAINS WHY EGR FAILURES HAPPEN https://triscan.dk/en/news/egr-valve-st ... d-moneyVan has now been with dealer for 8 days while we negotiate between dealer and volkswagen it was found to have faulty egr valve passed between dealer and volkswagen eventually a compromise deal i had to accept . Been told van will be ready to collect sat morning just hope and pray its ok. Not much hope for future as i am sure E189 update that caused problem in first place will do its best to ruin this new part :( :(SO IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO PURCHASE NEW VAN BEWARE OF E189 UPDATE Hi All collected van this morning new egr valve fitted made my contribution towards cost so that i have 2 years warranty cover for part as i was out of trust building measure of 2 years which i had not been notified about 5 miles up road temp warning lamp comes on i had checked level before leaving dealer between max and min level.when i stopped to check level regeneration was in progress and water level had dropped below min level so much for road test back to dealers topped up water level and checked for leaks none could be seen must have been airlock in system :oops: :oops:
Last edited by lal138 on Sat May 25, 2019 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

lal138
Caddy Fan
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:19 pm
Engine size/power: 2.0 TDI (140bhp)
Location: nprthampton

Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:17 pm

Apparently, it is all our fault. Despite driving within the manufacturer's instructions (including regular and frequent 'runs' to clear the dpf even though the dpf warning light has never come one [probably due the regular 'runs' at between 2k - 2.5k RPM as advised by VW if the recent driving has been mostly urban), and the manufacturer's instructions not saying "don't use supermarket fuel', it is our fault, for using supermarket fuel, and we shouldn't.
Because the supermarket fuel doesn't have the additives of the premium fuels, (even though we routinely use Redex if we are using fuel that doesn't already have 'engine cleaning additives).

Because its our fault we are using fuel that the VAG isn't willing to commit in print to saying out and out : "shouldn't be used".
And we are using additives that aren't the premium ones that VAG isn't willing to commit in print to saying out and out : "should be used instead of supermarket fuel".
For problems that aren't caused by their 'fix' (or but might be caused, but only for 1% of cars).
That they are fixing free of charge, because there isn't a problem, despite all the reports on the internet.

Should I be expecting further woes, if I keep using the car in an urban environment?.OK this may not be at all pertinent to your current problems, but I would certainly check if the vehicle has had the emissions fix done. It seems some VW garages have just gone and done the work and not bothered to tell owners.

A phone call to VW will confirm if the fix is outstanding or not, and if it was done when it was done.

The sad thing is that before the fix, Caddys had established a decent reputation of reliably covering serious miles. Since the fix there have been far too many reports on here of vehicles with emissions related problems. However I suspect those reports are just the tip of the iceberg, as far too many owners assume any fault with their vehicle is their problem and pay up for issues which may actually be caused by the fix. Just remember that for many years unmodified Caddy taxi versions in Germany were routinely coming up for sale on ebay.de having already covered 600,000km (370,000miles) most without any sign of limp mode issues, and as a result were still securing serious money in the second hand market.

Anyway, if your Caddy has had the emissions fix done, then remember that VW were meant to be offering a 2 years free warranty on affected systems like the EGR. So perhaps VW will pick up some of the bill? Even if the fix was done by a previous owner the residue of the warranty may transfer to you.

Whilst VW have done their best to keep precise details of their fix under wraps, it seems almost inevitable that the changes made to cut emissions will inevitably put the exhaust management systems (like EGR, Cat and DPF) under greater stress than they were before the fix. So is it any surprise these systems quickly get gummed up?
Last edited by lal138 on Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lal138
Caddy Fan
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:19 pm
Engine size/power: 2.0 TDI (140bhp)
Location: nprthampton

Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:21 pm

I'm considering getting the car remapped to a pre fix state by an independent garage. I just don't know whether to bite the bullet to do it now or after my 2 years 'goodwill' gesture ends.Of which i had no knowledge of so has expired

I'm kinda holding off just now in the hope that the pressure being exerted on VAG will make them finally give in and reverse it themselves.

SnoWhite
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by SnoWhite » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:15 pm

Don't hold your breath. You only need to scroll through posts on here and you will probably conclude there are way too many engines encountering issues with the fix. So do you seriously think VW are ever going to want to pick up the tab for the full consequences of this deception?

I really would not wait one second longer as your 2.0tdi will be a changed beast if you get it remapped by Pendle Performance. Pendle even offer a discounted rate for Caddy2K forum members and have the ability to undo the fix which should limit the risk of the Check Engine light returning to haunt you.

Just remember that before the fix appeared Caddy taxis were regularly appearing on the German website Mobile.de having covered 600,000 km plus, and still securing decent aftermarket prices, now they struggle to achieve a sale let alone anything like the same residual values Why the EU failed to force VW to buy back all affected vehicles (like they did in the USA) is fairly obvious given the dominant voice of the Germans. Makes you wonder if a similar deception was observed in cars imported from - say Indonesia - would the EU authorities really have taken such a lenient approach? I think not.

Hey Ho I hope you get the van sorted soon. In case you are worried about remapping, those 2.0 tdis can easily be tuned to deliver 170 HP without pushing anything outside the usual VW parameters - which is the output from that engine when installed in the Skoda Superb.

lal138
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Posts: 79
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Engine size/power: 2.0 TDI (140bhp)
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:57 pm

HI SnoWhite thanks for your reply as a pensioner i have always had vw cars and vans and worked on them myself and enjoyed and got great pleasure in doing so but as you get older your mind says yes but your body says no. I believe that vw trust building measure is not fit for purpose as the problems will return after time I do not have much choice but to get update removed just the cost of removing EA189 many thanks

karlos0891
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by karlos0891 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:13 am

supermarket fuel also contains bio diesel which does not work well with dpfs. most cars i know with dpf issues are due to supermarket fuel or them being driven at too low revs. my 2.0tdi pd engine only gets shell or bp fuel mainly due to the fact of how expensive fuel components are so dont want the risk of them fwiling due to poor quality fuel. but there are lots of issues with vws update because it makes them regen more with clogs egr up more which then blocks and throws up a fault which will then lrevent a regen and thus create blocked dpf which will increase back pressure making everything work harder. dpf and egr just made them less reliable and effiecent really but they make it so repairs are needed more which helps keep garages in bussiness

lal138
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Posts: 79
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Engine size/power: 2.0 TDI (140bhp)
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:36 pm

Hi Karlos thanks for your reply i need to use my van more I do tend to do to many short journeys and use cheaper fuel.thanks Peter :D

karlos0891
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by karlos0891 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:04 pm

welcome. if you do mainly shorter journeys then once a week it needs a decent run where you can keep the revs at about 2500-3000 rpm for 20 minutes without interuption but only do this once engine is up to temps and ideally on a motorway or very long dual carriageway. that way gets the dpf really hot and clears it out the best

lal138
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:32 pm

HI karlos thanks for response most of my journeys are short i know now that i need to do what you suggest.I did go down to Devon a few weeks ago on motorway but at 70 mph in 6th gear it stays steady at just above 2000 rpm so need lower gear to up revs to clear dpf and complete regeneration many thanks Pete :D :D

totty79
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by totty79 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm

All you need to do to allow a vehicle to manage it's DPF is to avoid repeatedly preventing active regens from completing.
If the fans go nuts after you've parked then this can be an indicator that an active regen was in progress and you've just stopped it, you should avoid doing this several times back to back and make sure that your next drive allows it to restart and complete.

Unless you use VCDS or similar to monitor soot load and exhaust temps then driving around at increased revs is a bit too random. If the exhaust temp isn't high enough for a passive regen or the soot load at that time is very low then you're wasting your time, for all you know it might have completed an active regen the day before.

lal138
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Posts: 79
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Engine size/power: 2.0 TDI (140bhp)
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:42 pm

Hi Totty i have noticed that fans run after i park up sometimes.How can you tell when regeneration is in progress when driving.i need to do more longer runs in caddy and use my petrol car for short trips to do shopping and errands it gets longer trips in summer i would think cold temp does not help soot build up in winter thanks for response Pete :D :D

lal138
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:53 pm

a dpf is not 100% effiecent over time they will block up as they never self clean 100% depending on engine oil and what sort of fuel you use will depend on how often they fill up and how much they clean themselves. also when regening if you have the engine up to temp and are on the motorway at the speed limit but engine rpm at 2500-3000 rpm it will clean much more effiecently than if you sit at speed limit but only 2000-2500rpm as they will be less heat and exhaust gases flowing.

then you have fuel to consider as most supermarkets now add biodiesel to there diesel it might only be a small amount but this seems to be bad for dpfs as they do clog more often due to it. then you have oil if you use the wrong oil then the vapours that get burnt off can also help clog the dpf sooner. also if your engine says use a 5w30 oil thats for dpf fitted vehicles then sometimes using a 5w40 oil for dpf fitted vehicles can be better as less oil vapours and will lubricate the engine better as diesel can be harder on oil than petrols and the turbo will get hotter the more full a dpf gets as back pressure increases there fore increasing oil temps. also a lot of vaux guys add two stroke to there fuel too to help keep the fuel pump and injectors better lubricated but if they dont use low ash mineral then that causes issues for the dpf too.

then you also have egr that works with the dpf and if the egr diesnt work correctly due to being clogged or even blanked off with a plate with a 10mm hole in it that can make the dpf fail a regen or not regen fully so there fore will clog up.

cleaning is cheaper than a replacement but i have not been involved with cleaning one or fitting one or removing one for cleaning to see how effective it is. but it is normally about 1/10-1/5 the price of a new dpf to be fitted and should give a longer service life for the dpf.

so depending on all above factors will effect the life of a dpf. if someone uses bp/shell fuel and then correct oil for dpf fitted vehicle and then does a run at say 2,750rpm at speed limit for 20 minutes on a motorway once or twice a week then they should have less issues and a longer service life of their dpf than say someone who uses supermarket fuel and the wrong oil for a dpf fitted vehicle and does say only 2000rpm at speed limit for 20 minutes.

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Doc
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by Doc » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:30 pm

I have never driven my 1.6TDI with elevated engine speed to regenerate the DPF I always thought they are designed to actively regenerate with normal driving. My van will regenerate without a problem at 68mph in fifth gear, whatever RPM that equates to, for 25 minutes of motorway driving during my work commute. I recall only once where the revs were elevated and exhaust noise was deeper when I got to my drive. I went round my town bypass once and all was good again.
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lal138
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Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:19 pm
Engine size/power: 2.0 TDI (140bhp)
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by lal138 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:01 pm

Hi Doc many thanks for your response so there is no way to tell us when engine dpf is in regenerate mode when we are driving around only if we park up and fan keeps running after engine is turned of still regenerating . At least i do not have to thrash in low gear to clear many thanks Peter :D :D

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Doc
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Re: E 189 update Had No Choice

Post by Doc » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:24 pm

Elevated engine speed at idle and a deeper sound from the exhaust are some indicators for me. MPG drops quite a bit too, might drops from 47-51 to 36-40 on my commute if the DPF has regenerated.
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2013 1.6TDI, Superplus Wheels MSP19 , Caddy4 rear lights, 2016 Polo GTI (mk7 style) steering wheel, TRC front splitter, Relentless Tuning front coilovers, Audi A6 S-Line front seats, mk6 GTI Front & rear Brakes, 3D Colour Premium dash cluster, Caddy life arm rest, Motexion bulkhead, 2016 MIB head unit


I have genuine VCDS Hex V2, VagCAN Pro, KESS, K-Tag for any of your programming needs.

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