Ignition barrel jammed after service

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veedubgub
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Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by veedubgub »

I took my caddy in for a routine service and check up this morning to a local independent vw specialist ( oil change/check over etc)

On collection they went through a few other wear and tear issues that need addressing at some point. Nothing major though.

When i get in the van to drive off, the key wont turn in the barrel. It turns just enough to unlock the steering lock but then it gets stuck, i cant turn it enough to illuminate the lights on the dash. Hence I couldn't start it. Central locking all works fine, i just cant turn the key enough to start it.

Luckily managed to catch the guy that did the work on it as he was leaving who tried to help out to no avail, we tried multiple times, WD40 etc nothing worked, also got my Mrs to bring down the spare key but that didnt work either
Receptionist called one of the other mechanics who said it could be an issue with the lock barrel or housing where they fail sometimes trapping the key in the lock, needing either the housing or the other internals replacing. (Luckily the key didn't get stuck)
Has anyone heard of or experienced this problem before?
The vehicle has been moved a few time since i dropped in as they would have had it on the ramp from where i parked it and then moved it round the front when they were finished working on it.

Ive had no issues whatsoever with the key/ignition before so it seems weird that i take it for a service and now its busted!

Ive had to leave it with them and the key until Monday when they are going to take a look at it. They've said that if it is the lock barrel that they'd need to order a new one from Germany that takes 7-10 days

Also where do you guys think i stand in terms of liability..... I basically took in a working a vehicle that i now can't drive away and it seems like they're they're expecting me to fork our for the cost of getting it fixed

I suppose if this was going to happen, It could have done so in a lot of places much worse that at the garage.
Last edited by veedubgub on Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NZDubNurd
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by NZDubNurd »

It happens pretty commonly.

Usually, you get a bit of warning, like stiffness or occasional jamming, but not always.

Just sounds like bad luck, that it just happened there.

If you Google MK5 ignition problems, you'll see plenty of results (same parts).
Scoobysrt
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by Scoobysrt »

Unfortunatley filling it with wd40 has now washed the proper lube out and ideally the lock will have to be removed and cleaned out then lubed properly, never put wd40 in a lock.

In my opinion it's the garage that's broke it they should stand the cost.

It could be a number of things that's retaining the key, I've come across it quite often on vehicles especially ones that don't have the steering wheel moved before turning the key to take the steering lock friction off the mechanism.
Quite often ignition locks should have the key pushed in then turned but most people just insert the key and turn, I can't even remember off the top of my head if the caddy needs pushing in as I do it naturally.

Often a gentle rocking back and forth while gently pushing in and out will release the key on a vw but now it's had wd40 in it you may find it more difficult, it could be a faulty switch on the end and the lock not being at the actual fault.

Either way the lock should be removed, the switch checked and the lock stripped down and cleaned then relubed properly. It would be easier and quicker to get a new lock from vw rekeyed to your existing key but it won't be very cheap.

As a guide, as a locksmith, I charge £60 to remove the key, remove the lock, clean the lock, relube the lock and refit. For a new lock the customer can aquire one and I'll fit it or I'll get one and charge them retail on top of the £60.
2016 Starlight blue highline 2.0 tdi - stainless side bars - DubUnit remap 190 bhp ish - st x lowering kit - golf R cadiz 18" wheels - rear wiper delete - ProVan600 interior led light - red painted calipers - Kenwood headunit - sequential side repeaters - vcds hex net pro
veedubgub
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by veedubgub »

Had a look on yt and seen a few vids or various vws with the same thing


@scoobsrt.
He put a very small amount of wd (was actually some other type of spray penetrant) but i get the point about washing out the grease

The key is not stuck in the lock itself. Just wont turn enough when it is inserted.
I.e when i arrived to collect the van they handed me the key and i open the van/tried to start it when i realised there was a problem.
Scoobysrt
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by Scoobysrt »

Sorry dude I misread it, when you mentioned trapping the key in the lock I thought that wad happening to yours, it was early lol. If it was something other than wd40 youre probably OK and the fact its not key retaining is good. It sounds like the switch on the back causing the issues which is cheaper to replace.
Good luck bud, keep us informed how it goes.
2016 Starlight blue highline 2.0 tdi - stainless side bars - DubUnit remap 190 bhp ish - st x lowering kit - golf R cadiz 18" wheels - rear wiper delete - ProVan600 interior led light - red painted calipers - Kenwood headunit - sequential side repeaters - vcds hex net pro
veedubgub
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by veedubgub »

Will do mate.

Can you describe the location/details of the switch that might be the issue so i can pass that on to the garage. Just in case they dont check that and they default to just replacing everything option.

Feel free to pm me if you dont want to post certain info on the thread
Last edited by Giddy on Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed unnecessary quote of previous post
Scoobysrt
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by Scoobysrt »

The switch is just on the back of the barrel, they will know what and where it is without doubt.
It may be possible that they will say they can only get the whole switch and barrel assembly but you can get just the switch.
Somthing like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254500377483 ... Sw-0BeNbDx

They need to remove the whole assembly and work out if its the barrel, switch or steering lock causing the issue and just sort that bit.

On some cars the steering lock had a sleave with a slot that can move and jam the lock but you say yours is turning, if the key turns some if the way the actual lock mechanism sounds OK and leads me to think the switch has gone which could be anything from broken contacts, melted contacts from over powered incorrect jump starting, a short etc or just a failure as they are plastic and can split.

Peugeots used to have a particular knack of breaking when the starter was on which then burnt the starter out and sometimes then set the car on fire through the switch.
2016 Starlight blue highline 2.0 tdi - stainless side bars - DubUnit remap 190 bhp ish - st x lowering kit - golf R cadiz 18" wheels - rear wiper delete - ProVan600 interior led light - red painted calipers - Kenwood headunit - sequential side repeaters - vcds hex net pro
veedubgub
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by veedubgub »

So i got a call from the garage earlier today saying that three components inside the lock had failed and need to be replaced...lock barrel. Ignition barrel and switch all have to be ordered from Germany 7-10 day lead time etc and cost just over five hundred to fix :-(

They suggested that i pop the spare key in to them which i did. In doing so i had a quick look in the van and it looks exactly as i left it..... Was expecting to see the ignition shrouds removed and at least some of the lock barrel exposed.

How would they be able to confirm what actually failed without even stripping anything down to look at?
When I asked they said there master technican didn't strip it down but was able to tell just from how the key feels in the lock?!??
@Scoobysrt you said your a locksmith right? I could appreciate that a trained locksmith might have a 'feel' for this type of thing but a regular mechanic, im not so sure as locks arent specifically their everyday thing.

I would at least have expected them to do a proper investigation to really confirm whats wrong rather. Seems a bit like a stab in the dark to me by replacing everything.

The spare key didnt work.
It seems like im a bit screwed since i cant even move the van to get a second opinion or someone to take a proper look at it and those guys can more or less tell me whatever they like





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Last edited by veedubgub on Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Doc
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by Doc »

Which generation of caddy is this? What year?
I'd like to think that if you have the key to get the steering lock off, I'd get it running and driving in no more than 30 minutes.
Take it to a better garage who will actually take the ignition switch off the back and prove its not just that common failure which is your problem.

For me, not even being a locksmith, if the key turns past the steering lock, the lock coding part is passed and the rest is just a rotary action with some latching and spring back.
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veedubgub
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by veedubgub »

Its a 2009 mk3.

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Scoobysrt
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by Scoobysrt »

As doc said really, they are trying to insert their dicks in to your ass im afraid.

I'm extremely good at what I do and I couldn't tell if the switch was fucked or not without pulling the lock out but if the key turns the wafers are setting correctly to the key and it seems there's no mechanical issue there so it's the switch that's failed.

Ignition barrel and lock barrel are the same thing as well so they are talking shit.

Tell them as they broke it they can pay to fix it.

The switch I linked to is £10.45 so again just trying to shaft you.

Last full lock kit I bought for a vw was for a mk6 golf and had all locks including ignition and was around £140+ vat I think, came next day delivered.

I'm with doc, get it towed elsewhere, you can bypass the ignition and drive it but I wouldn't like to say which connections you would need to short and be confident you wouldn't damage anything else.

Tell the garage they can pay for the recovery if its not what they have diagnosed.

If they've serviced it they've drove it so they've broke it, check the oil and filter has infact been changed, I suspect it hasn't.

Where you from?
2016 Starlight blue highline 2.0 tdi - stainless side bars - DubUnit remap 190 bhp ish - st x lowering kit - golf R cadiz 18" wheels - rear wiper delete - ProVan600 interior led light - red painted calipers - Kenwood headunit - sequential side repeaters - vcds hex net pro
veedubgub
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by veedubgub »

Thanks for the advice both. Ive got breakdown cover but not sure if im covered in this situation. If not I'll look at getting it towed.

@Scoobysrt im in Surrey just inside the m25 not far from Sutton/Croydon. Is that anywhere near you?

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Last edited by Giddy on Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post
veedubgub
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by veedubgub »

@Doc
So is it only the lock barrel which is coded/programmed to the key and immobiliser?

What about the switch that goes on the back of the housing?

Are the housing and other parts purely mechanical?

Just wondering if i should get it towed home and strip the thing myself and investigate

Only reason got them to service it was because i didnt have the time to do it myself. Wish i never took it to them in the first place now


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Last edited by Giddy on Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed unnecessary quote
Scoobysrt
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by Scoobysrt »

Unfirtunatley your a good 5-6 hours away from me,

The key has a chip in which is picked up by a coil ring that goes around the ignition barrel just behind the cowling, there's nothing on the lock itself that interacts with the chip so you're good.
2016 Starlight blue highline 2.0 tdi - stainless side bars - DubUnit remap 190 bhp ish - st x lowering kit - golf R cadiz 18" wheels - rear wiper delete - ProVan600 interior led light - red painted calipers - Kenwood headunit - sequential side repeaters - vcds hex net pro
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dan@biali
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Re: Ignition barrel jammed after service

Post by dan@biali »

To give you an idea of costs I had a quick look at the parts database (I think yours is a 1.9tdi so these parts are for 2009 Caddy)

Image

#10 ignition switch is about £45 on its own

#11 (#10, #22) Steering lock with ignition switch and adapter lead set is about £107

#14 lock cylinder for ignition starter switch with read coil, without key (can use your existing key by ordering the barrel to key or chassis #) is £170

Having watched a load of youtube clips I wonder if it's the common VW steering lock failure - there's a tab and a spring that move down when you turn the key and that allows the steering lock mechanism to drop down. When that fails the key turns slightly and then stops (some videos say the radio still came on and the steering lock had disengaged).

This guy is slightly annoying but shows some of the issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1AbSGnxc6k
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