Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

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AndyBa
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Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
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Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

So the damaged repairable 2011 Caddy Max 1.6 TDI keeps putting up a fight against being fixed again...
We noticed the low oil pressure light would intermittantly come on then go off. I rang round a couple of garages but they were just going to "plug it in" and see what VCDS showed. I referred to Google and You Tube and decided to buy a pressure tester off Amazon for circa £20.
Today I fitted the tester and it's registering 24psi at 2000rpm. Less at lower revs.
I changed the oil. Unfortunately there was a glinting of metal in the oil dregs at the bottom of the bowl. I started the car again and I'm getting the same result.
The van has done circa 85K and the condition/MOT history back this up. With it being damaged it didn't come with any history and was a "mis-calculated" risk.

Thoughts/guidance would be welcome.
We have already invested in 2 x new injectors as well as the body repair. I suspect the metal fragments are probably from the engine rather than a failing oil pump?

Thanks in advance.
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Doc
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by Doc »

Any metal in the oil will be terminal for your engine unfortunately. Was there anything in the filter?
I don't have the information to hand to say if the oil pressure you are measuring is good or bad, seems like good pressure to me.
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AndyBa
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Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 8:13 pm
Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
Location: Sheffield S Yorkshire

Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

Hi Doc. Thanks for the reply.
There weren't any bits of metal in the filter/housing.
The oil pressure light/alarm is obviously on constant now it's disconnected and the pressure guage is plumbed in.
A scan on Google shows one article indicating 29psi may be the VW spec for oil pressure but I can't find a definitive guide to the expected oil pressure at specific engine speeds. I certainly haven't seen the pressure higher than 24psi but I don't want to push my luck.
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by Scoobysrt »

I don't know anyone here that charges to plug vcds did you mean you didn't go to the garage because they would charge you? Maybe there is a member with vcds close to you that would plug in for free.

Have you done a compression test on the cylinders? Is there any slapping noise coming from the engine while it's running?
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AndyBa
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Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

Hi Scoobysrt.
I didn't have a problem taking the van in to a garage but was concerned the would rely on VCDS for the outcome and we'd be none the wiser. The original symptons were that the low oil pressure light would come on randomly. Not at start-up and not immediately after and when on wouldn't remain on. I could have just swapped the sensor but thought I'd check by fitting a guage since it would give a clearer picture as to what is going on over a period of time, it doesn't cost much and is 'fairly' straight forward to do.
I could have swapped the sensor out and that may have "fixed" the warning light coming on.
Getting the sensor out is a Pita when you do it for the first time and is made easier by removing the engine lifting hook first.
I'm not sure I know what piston slap sounds like on a diesel engine so I will take it down to the local VW garage this week and see if they can help.
Thanks.
Scoobysrt
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by Scoobysrt »

Vcds can do live data logging so you could do a journey with it plugged in and see what causes the light to come on, worth a go if you get stumped.
2016 Starlight blue highline 2.0 tdi - stainless side bars - DubUnit remap 180/190 bhp ish - st x lowering kit - golf R cadiz 18" wheels - rear wiper delete - ProVan600 interior led light - red painted calipers - Kenwood headunit - sequential side repeaters - vcds hex net pro
AndyBa
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Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

So today I rang Autohaus Dolby in Sheffield. Matt advised me that the oil pressure should be 2.0 bar which equates to 29psi and no higher. 24psi not being good.
So I guess it means we need to factor in a replacement engine.... it has only done 85K plus miles 8u99er! The most I've done on a car engine before is replace the head and timing belt on my MK2 Golf.
A scan on Google and ebay shows variable prices for replacement engines. Used with high/unknown mileage which seem risky. Then there are reconditioned circa £1K.
Time to ponder!
btw. What is the difference between a CAYD engine which is in the Caddy and say CAYC?
AndyBa
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Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

I did a bit more fault finding. I'm wary about swapping the engine for a second hand one which maybe just as bad. A recon one costs too much.
I took the sump off to see what the state of the oil pump was. It looks absolutely fine with no visible sign of wear. Bottom end looks really clean with very little evidence of metal "grit". Also checked the state of the toothed drive belt. Noted it is a DAYCO belt with a date of 2017 no teeth missing. Note the van is 2011. So there has obviously been a previous issue and it looks like the pump has been replaced too, it makes a nice squelching sound when rotated. I checked the big-end bearings for movement. Minimal side to side and no up/down. I'm tempted to check the state of the big end and mains whilst I've got the sump off, never done it before. Assume the bolts will need replacing?
I do realise there could be issues on the top end/turbo due to low oil pressure, but surely the main cause is the bottom end and if all is good then the top end will need checking. I haven't done a compression test but the van doesn't seem to be lacking power and doesn't smoke.
Your thoughts would be helpful.
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Exuptoy
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by Exuptoy »

I’m not a mech but at 50yo and been around cars all my life, when you have the sump off I’d suggest dropp off the bearing caps and carry out a cursory check of the shells. Pop them out of the lower half of the cap and carry out a vernier measurement to check for ovality.
I generally wouldn’t expect much movement and if it were enough to feel it that would suggest it’s Fubar so at least you know.
Check for scoring on the shells and measure at 3 points to verify it’s not oval.
AndyBa
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Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

Okies. So have removed the oil pump, all the big end bearing caps and one main bearing cap. The crank has previously been "fettled" all the bearings have + 0.05
EDIT 0.5 stamped on them.
EDIT: Bearings and crank are fine.
Got all new bolts but now need to know the torque settings. Can anyone help please? VW won't tell me!
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by AndyBa on Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Exuptoy
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by Exuptoy »

Speak to a local garage, most have access to Autodata.
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Exuptoy
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by Exuptoy »

Just googled and found this. I know it’s Golf and Jetta but covers a few engines like BLS etc.

http://mrtn.m4ti.net/mk5/Jetta%20&%20Go ... jector.pdf

Edit
Sorry just realised it’s a 1.6

Here ya go.
https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/5126/
AndyBa
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Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 8:13 pm
Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

Thanks Exuptoy.
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Exuptoy
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by Exuptoy »

My pleasure, hope it helps. That’s what these forums are for👍
AndyBa
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Engine size/power: 1.6 CR TDI (102bhp)
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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Guidance please

Post by AndyBa »

So today I finished fitting the sump. I think someone at Haynes is having a laugh if they think you can apply the silicone sealant and bolt all 20 sump bolts and 3 trans-to sump bolts in 5mins whilst laid on your back under the car!

A few torque settings for the 1.6 now I've invested in a manual. I don't know why but I thought they'd stopped publishing manuals!

Main bearings 65Nm + 90deg

Oil pump 3 x bolts 16Nm
Oil pickup 2 x bolts 9Nm
Sump to block 20 x bolts 13Nm
Trans to sump 3 x bolts 40Nm

I have left the 2 awkward angled "sump bellhousing" bolts off pending ideas on how not to lose them! I tried twice and they went AWOL.......PITA.

Manually turned the engine over to prime the oil pump prior to starting. Obviously no change on the low oil pressure front.

Doing any cylinder head check looks like a nightmare over and above taking the rocker cover off. The cams are held in a "tray" Probably another symptom of making car manufacture modular to make it quicker and cheaper.
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